Menu button

NSR 2015 Feedback

Moderator: Web Monkeys

NSR 2015 Feedback

Postby Simon North » Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:27 pm

Hi Guys,

First off, we want the thank all of you guys for getting stuck in and helping out at the weekend. Without all of your help the rodeo wouldn't be able to continue.

One final thing we want from you all is some feedback. We need to know what we did well so we can keep doing it, but more importantly we need to know what we didn't do well so it can be passed on to make next year even better. Please be don't just say something was bad, explain why it was bad.

Either post it on here, or if you're shy, send it to nationalstudentrodeo@gmail.com with the subject 'feedback 2014'.

Thanks
User avatar
Simon North
Mrs Claus
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:44 am

Re: NSR 2015 Feedback

Postby Jan » Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:55 pm

First of all, thank you really much for letting me have this experience!
Was an awesome weekend and I really enjoyed it.

As for feedback, one point which in my point of view could be improved, is the rubbish disposal. As far as I know I didn't see any distinctive rubbish bags alongside the course, which resulted in the partially really disgusting cleaning up after the prize ceremony. Also during some of my toastie runs, I had the impression the safety team might appreciate a way to get rid of their tea cups.
taping a few bags to some of the trees alongside the course might already be sufficient
User avatar
Jan
Keeno here!
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:50 pm
Location: I am not from here

Re: NSR 2015 Feedback

Postby ruby » Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:41 pm

I agree with Jan's point. There seemed very few places to throw rubbish this year.
I'm sure this is going to get brought up a lot and I know there was a problem with the ovens but Saturday night food was a HUGE problem. Last year didn't seem to bad but it seemed to have reverted back to its usual chaos this year. I ended up actually missing the food because I was so hungry tired and grumpy that I went back and ate my own food. I didn't even do any paddling so can't imagine what everyone else felt like. Do river legacy even have to bother with the food? I know it's a nice idea but if we just scrapped it and told people to bring their own then you could make ticket prices a bit cheaper and avoid a massive faff. If we need to provide a meal why can't it be something a bit simpler to produce or something cold but with warm soup or something to warm people up? This is just me thinking aloud so I'm sure there are loads of other useful suggestions for this.
Another thing I noticed was there were loads of prizes which was great but it wasn't actually explained why some of the clubs won them. Maybe a short explaination during the prize giving would have been useful so other unis know things they could try and win next year.

That's all for now but if I think of anything else I'll let you know.
I thought it was great though and a massive well done to everyone :) can't wait for next year!!
User avatar
ruby
Boobies!
 
Posts: 785
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:09 am
Location: Leeds/London

Re: NSR 2015 Feedback

Postby Pyro » Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:27 pm

ruby wrote:Do river legacy even have to bother with the food?

Unfortunately, yes. It's a condition of the license that we/they provide a proper hot meal. I'm not sure soup would confirm to that idea of a 'proper hot meal', though it's a thought.
"Sometimes you dig your own."
User avatar
Pyro
Chillin' out maxin' relaxin' all cool And all shootin some b-ball outside of the school
 
Posts: 2962
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:38 pm
Location: Wandering in edaphic genuflection, looking for an answer or reason

Re: NSR 2015 Feedback

Postby Paddy F » Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:44 pm

Just had a thought, on years when there has been less delay in running the meal Saturday evening the thing that has still caused the wait that everyone complains about is the fact that there is only so much table room. Could it maybe be worth discussing with River legacy providing a meal that can be easily carried and eaten on the move? maybe then there wouldn't be the wait for a table to free up so you can sit down and then the wait to be told you can go and queue for the food. If it's something that can be carried away then sure put all the tables out but people can go and get there food and go back to their campsite if they want, or just wander around with it. Does the license specify it has to be a sit down meal?

Separate piece of feedback was that the marquee the first aid team had I thought it was brilliant. The only downside to it was that there was one side completely open. Luckily that side wasn't open to the wind all weekend but if the wind had changed it wouldn't have been so great so for next year maybe have all 4 sides on we can always open a side(s) up as and when is needed/comfortable... First aid supplies got sorted fairly quickly but next year making sure we're fully stocked up in advance would be good. After the incident with the poor bloke from safety getting himself dehydrated and exhausted maybe next year add a supply of rehydration salts/dioralyte into the box as once we got some salt in him he definitely recovered quickly.

I had a great time, the first aid team all enjoyed helping out and I'm looking forward to my next NSR.

In other news, I'll create a First Aid report template and send that to the gmail account so that we have on file so we don't have the form change we had this year AND when I'm next in Leeds I'll drop off the NSR First Aid hi-vis vest I found in the boot of my car today.
But it seemed like such a good idea at 4 in the morning...
Paddy F
Foam pile
 
Posts: 469
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:48 am

Re: NSR 2015 Feedback

Postby Canavan » Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:42 pm

Out of interest why was first aid that tent? Are a stinky ditch in Nottingham not letting NSR use the cabin that's on top of the hill anymore?

With respect to the food on Saturday, I broke my fork therefore it was a complete disaster and we should have had softer food. Just messing. I enjoyed the food, I think its a good hearty meal and I don't hear many people complaining about it. If I'm correct in saying that the queues were caused by a broken oven, then there's little that can be done to avoid that happening. Just have to hope river legacy look after the equipment. I do like the idea of just being able to take the food back to the campsite, but even if we could do that or there were extra tables, River Legacy are still limited to how fast they can serve people, which I think is roughly 100 people every 30 minutes, or that was the target last year. So tbh if you weren't queuing for a seat you'd probably just be queuing for the food. Are people able to say how long they were queuing last year? As we had a pretty similar meal and I don't remember anything causing a delay. Which means it is probably a better representative of how viable the meal is, to be served to a 1000 people.
In summary I don't particularly see the food as a problem and people could accept an apology for a circumstance that was unforeseeable.

My only real grumble is missing the Film Awards as I was still queuing for food and was wondering how possible it would be to have that held back at the campsite, possibly in the registration tent. But River Legacy would probably be upset about this and the loss to bar profits that might be incurred.
Last edited by Canavan on Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
:bum: :bum: :bum: :bum: :bum:
User avatar
Canavan
Disposable probe
 
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:19 pm

Re: NSR 2015 Feedback

Postby Oliver Excell » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:33 pm

So I’m just going to ignore the food issue as that’s pretty clear.

Registration wise, a minor issue seemed to come from non-uni entrants, they just didn’t know where to go. So many queued up in there University only not to be on the list, meaning we had to search through different books. Maybe when non-uni entrants sign up they could have an associate Uni or graduated from or something similar, so whether I for example sign up through Leeds or through the site I still end up on the Leeds list.

Novice prizes, obviously you’ve got to be grateful for any prizes the sponsors donate, but sponsorship seems a bit of a strange one for novices. Speaking to the women’s winner (in the services on the way home, funny story for another time), similar to James situation she’s social sec and only gets in a boat now and again. Just wonder with the University structure (she’s on a year abroad next year not really helping things), how many novices would actually make use of it? Just seems like a quality prize could be wasted quite a lot of the time. Maybe James can give a better opinion tho.

Incentives to help, In case this get interpreted the wrong way I’ll make it clear I’d still go to NSR if the tickets were £100 and were no incentives, I’d still help out and love life. Beer tokens, I received none, I don’t help to earn them, I help cus I love it (maybe I just did a shit job and didn’t deserve one anyway :P), got a free T-shirt either way. If I was a student concerned more about how skint I am on the other hand, I’d probably feel a bit underappreciated and be a bit less keen to help in future years. More of a reminder for future rodeo bosses, keep the fresher’s sweet with drinks and they’ll bend over for you.

That’s all I can think of for now, top Rodeo anyway guys.
User avatar
Oliver Excell
Alright My Luvver!!
 
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:16 pm
Location: Leeds/Bristol

Re: NSR 2015 Feedback

Postby ruby » Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:24 pm

Sorry for my grumble on the food. It just seems to come up every year and I can't believe a solution hasn't been found.
I like paddys idea though about being able to take it away.
User avatar
ruby
Boobies!
 
Posts: 785
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:09 am
Location: Leeds/London

Re: NSR 2015 Feedback

Postby Beth » Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:53 pm

Ok so food issues.... Happen every year, it of Leeds control, not really sure how you deal with that.

Rubbish bags around the course 100% need to be brought back.

Judging / scoring..... So I know that my judges aren't perfect and done all score the same / judge consistently / make life 100% easy. However, the database this year was not flexible enough. You have to have a database which allows you to start generating heat lists before the extreme Pole dancing results are fully input so that you can start whenever. You cannot have your divorce boat races such that they HAVE to be in the heat you say because people are not organised and some unis only have 1 divorce boat between 2 or 3 entrants.

Also, I think heats should be done in scores rather than numbers. 32 is too many people for women's expert heats given that there aren't any experts and it'll just put people off competing. It should instead be anyone with a score over over 20 or something.

If I am involved with judges next year (or to be honest.... Even if I'm not) I beg you to talk to me about the scoring etc before you agree anything so I can give you a practical view on what works and what doesn't.

Food and drinks didn't really go to the judges at all this year which was a bit of a shame....

Also, you need someone in charge of setting off and timing events. If that is meant to be judges I need to know in advance. But really they can't do both. Also you really need 3 working megaphones so you can have 1 at each heat.

It would be good to not sort prizes in the tech Hut as that gets a bit awkward. Use the back of an empty Van or somethin.

recommend getting extreme events to aannounce prizes and you should definitely give some explanation as to why unis win certain prizes.

Also, prizes should be announced in reverse order..... Not 1st to start with.
User avatar
Beth
Sponsored by Pop&Go!
 
Posts: 1038
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:54 pm

Re: NSR 2015 Feedback

Postby Beth » Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:55 pm

Ok so food issues.... Happen every year, it of Leeds control, not really sure how you deal with that.

Rubbish bags around the course 100% need to be brought back.

Judging / scoring..... So I know that my judges aren't perfect and done all score the same / judge consistently / make life 100% easy. However, the database this year was not flexible enough. You have to have a database which allows you to start generating heat lists before the extreme Pole dancing results are fully input so that you can start whenever. You cannot have your divorce boat races such that they HAVE to be in the heat you say because people are not organised and some unis only have 1 divorce boat between 2 or 3 entrants.

Also, I think heats should be done in scores rather than numbers. 32 is too many people for women's expert heats given that there aren't any experts and it'll just put people off competing. It should instead be anyone with a score over over 20 or something.

If I am involved with judges next year (or to be honest.... Even if I'm not) I beg you to talk to me about the scoring etc before you agree anything so I can give you a practical view on what works and what doesn't.

Food and drinks didn't really go to the judges at all this year which was a bit of a shame....

Also, you need someone in charge of setting off and timing events. If that is meant to be judges I need to know in advance. But really they can't do both. Also you really need 3 working megaphones so you can have 1 at each heat.

It would be good to not sort prizes in the tech Hut as that gets a bit awkward. Use the back of an empty Van or somethin.

recommend getting extreme events to aannounce prizes and you should definitely give some explanation as to why unis win certain prizes.

Also, prizes should be announced in reverse order..... Not 1st to start with.
User avatar
Beth
Sponsored by Pop&Go!
 
Posts: 1038
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:54 pm

Re: NSR 2015 Feedback

Postby brync » Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:48 pm

Caveat: This is all from a safety perspective, because that's all I did.

ruby wrote:Do river legacy even have to bother with the food?


You want a rodeo without a safety team? Because that's how you get a rodeo without a safety team.

Food from RL was straight bullshit this year, especially for safety. When people have been on course, doing really strenuous, physical work for ten straight hours, waiting over an hour to be fed simply isn't good enough. Especially when that food is cold mash and tepid gravy. It's not like it's hard to keep a chafing dish warm, that's the entire point.

Safety team food tickets (with a working queue jump) for safety team members that sign up through their unis would be nice too. If people are paying to work at your event, making sure they get a hot meal, promptly, in the evening is pretty pivotal to keeping morale up.

Food/tea during the day on sunday was fantastic. Massive shout out to the toastie team for the amount they got delivered, if we can have both days like that next year, everything will be great.

Rubbish bags on site were a definite concern. The course really did start getting a bit grotty.

I agree with Beth on the prize sorting, I believe the back of the rodeo van was used last year and it worked well enough, also kept me from throwing more things at people, also on getting extreme events to work the crowd during prizegiving. You're paying them to be there the whole weekend, so you may as well get your money's worth.

Oliver Excell wrote:Speaking to the women’s winner (in the services on the way home, funny story for another time)

Has she heard of redtube?
I'm not in Aberystwyth.
User avatar
brync
Theoretical kayaker...
 
Posts: 1058
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:33 am
Location: Not Aberystwyth

Re: NSR 2015 Feedback

Postby Gilo » Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:25 pm

Beth wrote:You have to have a database which allows you to start generating heat lists before the extreme Pole dancing results are fully input so that you can start whenever. You cannot have your divorce boat races such that they HAVE to be in the heat you say because people are not organised and some unis only have 1 divorce boat between 2 or 3 entrants.


If there's one thing that's really struck me it's just how flexible the entrants are. People got on the water when they felt like it (which we expected mostly for the extreme pole dancing but it only got worse as the weekend went on, and that's when the schedule matters most), and in certain cases people even decided to enter a competition when they felt like it!

The scoring system as laid out on paper was An Awesome Plan (tm). Great care was taken to ensure that groupings on the water in the six K1 heats and the divorce boats would be fair, where "fair" meant evenly distributing the top performers across the groups with the expectation that they would likely come first in their group and consequently make it through to the final, ergo you'd hope to see all the top performers getting a good shot at being selected from their respective groups to populate the finals. All the best people in the finals? Awesome! What could possibly go wrong? Well, where this falls down is that if people get on the water whenever - if people make their own groups but we stick with the idea that we're going to pick the top people in a group, all that careful balancing is for nought. And if you all just happen to be great paddlers, only one of the group gets chosen and the rest of the group will be arriving at the door of the tech hut to complain that they were not chosen, but they "should have been" (quotes denote a mismatch in expectation on either side of that door - how a paddler rates themselves on one side versus how we know the selection takes place on the other). So on the one hand, I don't think anyone would dispute that the Plan (tm) was inherently fair as a selection mechanism, with the caveat that everyone sticks to the schedule to allow it to work as intended. On the other hand, the Plan (tm) clearly cannot cope with the laissez-faire approach to taking part and/or the chaos on the side of the course as the event unfolds.

(Divorce boat addendum: we suspected some unis had fewer boats than entered pairs, but unless you know exactly *which* unis have such a restriction you can't plan around it, and we did ask anyone that came to the hut to see if they could borrow from other unis in this case)

In a similar vein, the quotas for each category that were part of the system could only be filled once the extreme event had finished. There was a mechanism in place for promoting or demoting people, depending on where the bulk of the scoring lay, so that no one category would be starved of or flooded by entrants and render it either pointless or a burden upon the safety team. So again so far, so fair. But of course this does make it impossible to do this gradually, as the scores come in, because the boundaries between categories will be redrawn based on the number of entrants and the relative strength of all the competitors in the field (i.e. one year everyone could be amazing so people need to be demoted in spite of a notionally "good" score, and in other years everyone could be a novice and lots of people will be promoted in spite of a notionally "weak" score; what is considered good or weak is also affected by the size of the quotas as well as the strength of the competitors). Were we to constantly recalculate these boundaries as scores came in we would be faced with hordes of people saying "First I'm in beginner, then I'm in intermediate, now I'm in beginner again, wtf is going on?!" and they would be justified in their complaint. Having said that, the complaints this year took a different flavour: "I'm in the wrong category, I'm not an X", so it seems that where we were determined to be flexible from the outset in either encouraging people to aim a little higher in a "weak" field or to respect the strength of their peers in a "strong" field, some people really felt out of their depth or had their egos bruised, depending on which way the decision went.

While Simon and I put a lot of thought into drawing up the scoring system this year as a well defined process, and we succeeded in the sense that every variable we had control of was explicitly a part of that process, it's still a tough competition to score for when we're trying to be more precise and more fair to everyone taking part while people come and go as they please or struggle for some other reason in meeting the schedule. This is a classic case of conflicting requirements and in taking the approach we did, bending to the reality of people actually getting on the water has suffered. Getting a computer to do the "hand wavey" thing in the face of changing circumstances on the day is inordinately difficult, while getting humans to do the "number crunching" thing while also make decisions on the day is inordinately difficult too. We can and should aim to review the scoring process in detail, with the input of the judges and anyone else who saw how things were playing out on the water, to try and come up with a more flexible but still repeatable and fair system for next year.
User avatar
Gilo
Laurent Vales
 
Posts: 1540
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:08 pm

Re: NSR 2015 Feedback

Postby Oliver Excell » Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:10 pm

brync wrote:Has she heard of redtube?


Already past the beautiful one liner stage.

Gilo wrote:If there's one thing that's really struck me it's just how flexible the entrants are. People got on the water when they felt like it (which we expected mostly for the extreme pole dancing but it only got worse as the weekend went on, and that's when the schedule matters most), and in certain cases people even decided to enter a competition when they felt like it!


Haha sorry, may have banged down all the novices :P

Seriously though, having sent down all the novice heats, it’s impossible to keep them in the designated heats. It just ended up being if there’s ten people to go bang em down in a ten minute heat, maybe that’s not ideal for the scoring, but when your organising a bunch of drunk/hungover students there’s no alternative on the day.

Can the sheets be changed back from waves to heats as well, that’s just annoying. When your hanging and a student asks “Where’s wave 14?” it takes a good minute before you realise what there chatting and stop counting the waves down the course.
User avatar
Oliver Excell
Alright My Luvver!!
 
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:16 pm
Location: Leeds/Bristol

Re: NSR 2015 Feedback

Postby JayLay » Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:25 pm

Yeah so following on from Ollie, after going to speak to 'my sponsor' at the end of nsr, (i'm trying my hardest to so sound like a spoilt brat here) I was a bit miffed to find out that he was going to offer me 20-30% discount in his shop all the way in Nottingham in return for me doing publicity work for him. I need to email him to get the full details so can't be 100% sure of the deal yet so bare with. I know the novice heats aren't exactly proper kayaking but I did make myself very ill doing a lot of stupid shit in front of a lot of entertained people. It just bugged me because the novice is usually the best prize and this year it seemed second prizes in both male and female novice were actually better than first! I know its not Simon and Sarah's fault as MD insisted it was this prize but it just seems a massive cop out on their behalf.

I think the toastie and tea thing worked a lot better this year having a rota so people didn't miss out their events, I don't know who supplied the food but I think next year it would be good to have more food for toasties as there was no where near enough this year! As well as another water boiler and lots more bottled water as this seemed to slow things down.

In terms of Saturday night food I think the bad points have already been said, but a suggestion from me is that they could make huge amounts of one pot stew or something like that. They're pretty easy to make on a big scale and you could have loads of people serving it at once as well as it being pretty easy to put in a takeaway box so people don't have to eat in if they don't want. Served with some proper nice bread no one would deny its a full decent meal and it may just make thing a little easier than have a meal with 8 different components which is what they had on Saturday.

I had one of the best weekends I've ever had in my life as I did last year so don't be disheartened, we were all helping behind the scenes so we notice things more! If next year was to pan out exactly the same as this year then it would still be an absolutely awesome weekend, so thanks guys and keep up the good work!
JayLay
Sexy fresher
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:20 pm
Location: Leeds


Return to National Student Rodeo!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

About us

Congratulations on choosing the best club at Leeds!

At Leeds University Union Canoe club, we pride ourselves on our member base of paddlers who specialise in all disciplines of canoe sport at all abilities. Whether you're a complete beginner, a world champion*, a playboater, a river paddler, a creeker, a polo player, or a prolifically hard-core waterfall kayaker, we're sure you'll fit right in. Come along and get involved!

Register and introduce yourself here on the forum or visit our website for more details.

* Yes, we have one. But don't inflate his ego any more...
cron